Have you ever wondered why the average New Hampshire public school student cannot demonstrate proficiency in reading or math (source: 2024 National Assessment of Educational Progress)?
I do not think you are correct. The chosen major is education. The B.A. in Education at UNH requires 52 credits of education courses. The remainder are called "Discovery Courses." The person taking this degree does not pursue a degree in another area and then take education courses. This is their chosen subject area. The focus of the degree is on pedagogy (the science of education), not subject matter expertise. All of these 52 credits are what I would call process courses. These are courses like Curriculum and Methods; Diverse and Inclusive Studies; Exploring Teaching; Educational Perspectives in Critical Times; Introduction to Educational Studies; Human Development and more. Then there are all the courses I mentioned in my letter. They do not sound very academically challenging to me. As stated in the overall description of the degree, DEI is foundational in all of them.
The discovery courses are specifically designed for those outside a given major. They are not the same courses that a major in Chemistry for example follows. The very name "Discovery" tells me once again they are not academically challenging. They are overview courses in areas like physical science, biology etc. The average education major at UNH has a GPA of 3.48 (Google AI).
A student at Hillsdale must complete a degree. Education (i.e. pedagogy) courses are taken as a minor. These teachers will have degrees in Accounting, History, Applied Mathematics, Art, Fine Arts, Biochemistry, Biology, Classics, Economics, English, Business, Foreign Language, Greek, Music, Philosophy and more. These are academically challenging majors. They are not broad overview courses for those outside their major like UNH.
This is the whole point. The difference in philosophy concerning how a teacher is educated at UNH or Hillsdale could not be more different. This was my point.
Mark, they clearly require detailed study of a discipline in conjunction with Education, so your primary point is wrong, as Scott pointed out.
Actually, when I was there from '81-'85 we had to take the same amount of credits in Education as you would for a Major, but it was only considered a Minor, as they wanted you to be an expert in the field you would teach. At the time they required a graduate degree for automatic certification, which required extensive student teaching, most of which was unpaid or paid a pittance while paying for graduate school tuition, which is why I decided not to go that route.
By the way, your claim that Education classes are not "academically challenging" is completely off base, as I can personally attest. Some of the most thought-provoking classes I took (and I also had a minor in PoliSci that included only two classes less than a Major) were in Education. While I enjoyed many of the classes for my History Major, much of the information wasn't new to me due to my lifelong interest in that area. Another class that was fascinating was Women's Studies, which opened my eyes to many other perspectives I hadn't been exposed to or thought about.
You seem to want to harken back to the days when we didn't expose students to thoughts outside their insular bubble. The most value I found by far in my college education was the late-night conversations with people from different backgrounds than mine, and thus with different perspectives. It's important for people to understand there are many different perspectives and beliefs out there, and theirs aren't the only ones, or the "correct" ones. You seem not to have learned that.
I do not think you are correct. The B.A. in Education at UNH requires 52 credit hours of education courses. This is their chosen major. A person pursuing a B.A. in Education at UNH does not "pursue a degree in their chosen subject area as well as taking core courses in education." They take courses in the science of education (pedagogy). This of course is a 20th century development. This was never an academic discipline in the past. All 52 hours are part of the education curriculum. Samples include, Exploring Teaching, Educational Perspectives in Critical Times, Human Devlopment and Learning, Classroom Management and more. Additionally, there are all the courses I listed in my letter. According to the overall degree description DEI is foundational in all of them. They do not appear especially challenging. The average GPA at UNH for an education major is 3.48 (Google AI). Contrast this with the average Engineering major GPA of 2.8.
The remaining courses to complete the B.A in Education at UNH are called "Discovery Courses." The name is suggestive of their academic difficulty. They are broad overview classes in areas like physical science, biology and the like. These are not the same courses a major in biology would take for example. They are specifically designed for people outside the associated major.
A student at Hillsdale must complete a degree first. There is no B.A. in Education. There are no education majors. The necessary pedagogical skills are presented as a minor. These teachers will have a degree in Accounting, History, Applied Mathematics, Art, Fine Arts, Biochemistry, Chemistry, Classics, Philosophy etc. All of these are academically challenging degrees.
This is the point. The difference in the philosophy behind the training of a teacher at UNH or Hillsdale could not be greater. The Hillsdale teacher is an expert in his or her area of study. Pedagogy is the supporting actor not the lead role. At UNH the roles are reversed. I am suggesting, based on the NAEP scores, that giving preeminence to education majors instead of persons that are subject manner experts is a contributing factor why our children are doing so poorly.
Mark, nice try, but your pathetic attempt to twist the facts, coupled with your obvious lack of interest in including anyone who doesn't look like you. The courses you cite are required, but they are not the main focus of the program, though you try to make it sound like they are. They are, however, teaching important skills to make sure every student is taken into account and given the best chance for successful learning. You clearly didn't have sufficient critical thinking or training similar to what these courses offer, as your love of old-school training that left many students on the sidelines demonstrates. Unfortunately many people, like you, lack the self-awareness to realize that things were good for them but not for others in the old-school ways.
Education majors enter college with the lowest standardized test scores of any group but graduate with the highest GPA (CBS News). The average GPA of an education major is 3.5. The average GPA of an engineering major is 2.8. Education degrees are not academically challenging. A Bachelor of Arts, Master's or Doctorate in education do not compare to the undergraduate and graduate degrees issued in any other traditional field of study. They are simply not academically rigorous. Not to get political but read Dr. Jill Bidens dissertation if you want proof. This is why Hillsdale requires a person to obtain a degree in a particular subject first. There are no education majors at Hillsdale. The needed pedagogical skills are fit into a minor. No one denies that pedagogy plays a role but 5 years studying the process of education at UNH is ridiculous (along with its focus on DEI). I taught professionally in the electric power industry. Guess who they looked at first if after spending $250K and 2 years in training a nuclear reactor operator candidate failed their license exam? They looked at the teachers. Did they hire education majors to teach nuclear reactor operators? My contention is that we need to focus on subject matter expertise and not the process. Always in the past it was the master of a particular trade or discipline that taught the subject, not those focused on the process. A grammarian should teach grammar, not an education major. The current system is a failure. There is no other way to describe it. The NAEP scores prove it. Our kids cannot demonstrate proficiency in reading or math. It would seem that the predominate degree in the public education system might play a part in the poor performance of students. Can you deny that logic?
How did you determine that I have no interest in including anyone who doesn't look like me? You don't even know me. Hillsdale students aren't required to take a course about teaching race. They respect all people as created in the image of God. They take Dr. King's view. Teaching a black child to read is the same as teaching a white child. This right-wing institution admitted black students since its founding in 1844. It was the second college in America to grant degrees to women. They are simply more interested in having teachers with subject matter expertise and not education degrees.
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(6) comments
Education majors at UNH must pursue a degree in their chosen subject area as well as taking core courses in education. This is a misleading letter.
I do not think you are correct. The chosen major is education. The B.A. in Education at UNH requires 52 credits of education courses. The remainder are called "Discovery Courses." The person taking this degree does not pursue a degree in another area and then take education courses. This is their chosen subject area. The focus of the degree is on pedagogy (the science of education), not subject matter expertise. All of these 52 credits are what I would call process courses. These are courses like Curriculum and Methods; Diverse and Inclusive Studies; Exploring Teaching; Educational Perspectives in Critical Times; Introduction to Educational Studies; Human Development and more. Then there are all the courses I mentioned in my letter. They do not sound very academically challenging to me. As stated in the overall description of the degree, DEI is foundational in all of them.
The discovery courses are specifically designed for those outside a given major. They are not the same courses that a major in Chemistry for example follows. The very name "Discovery" tells me once again they are not academically challenging. They are overview courses in areas like physical science, biology etc. The average education major at UNH has a GPA of 3.48 (Google AI).
A student at Hillsdale must complete a degree. Education (i.e. pedagogy) courses are taken as a minor. These teachers will have degrees in Accounting, History, Applied Mathematics, Art, Fine Arts, Biochemistry, Biology, Classics, Economics, English, Business, Foreign Language, Greek, Music, Philosophy and more. These are academically challenging majors. They are not broad overview courses for those outside their major like UNH.
This is the whole point. The difference in philosophy concerning how a teacher is educated at UNH or Hillsdale could not be more different. This was my point.
Mark, they clearly require detailed study of a discipline in conjunction with Education, so your primary point is wrong, as Scott pointed out.
Actually, when I was there from '81-'85 we had to take the same amount of credits in Education as you would for a Major, but it was only considered a Minor, as they wanted you to be an expert in the field you would teach. At the time they required a graduate degree for automatic certification, which required extensive student teaching, most of which was unpaid or paid a pittance while paying for graduate school tuition, which is why I decided not to go that route.
By the way, your claim that Education classes are not "academically challenging" is completely off base, as I can personally attest. Some of the most thought-provoking classes I took (and I also had a minor in PoliSci that included only two classes less than a Major) were in Education. While I enjoyed many of the classes for my History Major, much of the information wasn't new to me due to my lifelong interest in that area. Another class that was fascinating was Women's Studies, which opened my eyes to many other perspectives I hadn't been exposed to or thought about.
You seem to want to harken back to the days when we didn't expose students to thoughts outside their insular bubble. The most value I found by far in my college education was the late-night conversations with people from different backgrounds than mine, and thus with different perspectives. It's important for people to understand there are many different perspectives and beliefs out there, and theirs aren't the only ones, or the "correct" ones. You seem not to have learned that.
I do not think you are correct. The B.A. in Education at UNH requires 52 credit hours of education courses. This is their chosen major. A person pursuing a B.A. in Education at UNH does not "pursue a degree in their chosen subject area as well as taking core courses in education." They take courses in the science of education (pedagogy). This of course is a 20th century development. This was never an academic discipline in the past. All 52 hours are part of the education curriculum. Samples include, Exploring Teaching, Educational Perspectives in Critical Times, Human Devlopment and Learning, Classroom Management and more. Additionally, there are all the courses I listed in my letter. According to the overall degree description DEI is foundational in all of them. They do not appear especially challenging. The average GPA at UNH for an education major is 3.48 (Google AI). Contrast this with the average Engineering major GPA of 2.8.
The remaining courses to complete the B.A in Education at UNH are called "Discovery Courses." The name is suggestive of their academic difficulty. They are broad overview classes in areas like physical science, biology and the like. These are not the same courses a major in biology would take for example. They are specifically designed for people outside the associated major.
A student at Hillsdale must complete a degree first. There is no B.A. in Education. There are no education majors. The necessary pedagogical skills are presented as a minor. These teachers will have a degree in Accounting, History, Applied Mathematics, Art, Fine Arts, Biochemistry, Chemistry, Classics, Philosophy etc. All of these are academically challenging degrees.
This is the point. The difference in the philosophy behind the training of a teacher at UNH or Hillsdale could not be greater. The Hillsdale teacher is an expert in his or her area of study. Pedagogy is the supporting actor not the lead role. At UNH the roles are reversed. I am suggesting, based on the NAEP scores, that giving preeminence to education majors instead of persons that are subject manner experts is a contributing factor why our children are doing so poorly.
Mark, nice try, but your pathetic attempt to twist the facts, coupled with your obvious lack of interest in including anyone who doesn't look like you. The courses you cite are required, but they are not the main focus of the program, though you try to make it sound like they are. They are, however, teaching important skills to make sure every student is taken into account and given the best chance for successful learning. You clearly didn't have sufficient critical thinking or training similar to what these courses offer, as your love of old-school training that left many students on the sidelines demonstrates. Unfortunately many people, like you, lack the self-awareness to realize that things were good for them but not for others in the old-school ways.
Education majors enter college with the lowest standardized test scores of any group but graduate with the highest GPA (CBS News). The average GPA of an education major is 3.5. The average GPA of an engineering major is 2.8. Education degrees are not academically challenging. A Bachelor of Arts, Master's or Doctorate in education do not compare to the undergraduate and graduate degrees issued in any other traditional field of study. They are simply not academically rigorous. Not to get political but read Dr. Jill Bidens dissertation if you want proof. This is why Hillsdale requires a person to obtain a degree in a particular subject first. There are no education majors at Hillsdale. The needed pedagogical skills are fit into a minor. No one denies that pedagogy plays a role but 5 years studying the process of education at UNH is ridiculous (along with its focus on DEI). I taught professionally in the electric power industry. Guess who they looked at first if after spending $250K and 2 years in training a nuclear reactor operator candidate failed their license exam? They looked at the teachers. Did they hire education majors to teach nuclear reactor operators? My contention is that we need to focus on subject matter expertise and not the process. Always in the past it was the master of a particular trade or discipline that taught the subject, not those focused on the process. A grammarian should teach grammar, not an education major. The current system is a failure. There is no other way to describe it. The NAEP scores prove it. Our kids cannot demonstrate proficiency in reading or math. It would seem that the predominate degree in the public education system might play a part in the poor performance of students. Can you deny that logic?
How did you determine that I have no interest in including anyone who doesn't look like me? You don't even know me. Hillsdale students aren't required to take a course about teaching race. They respect all people as created in the image of God. They take Dr. King's view. Teaching a black child to read is the same as teaching a white child. This right-wing institution admitted black students since its founding in 1844. It was the second college in America to grant degrees to women. They are simply more interested in having teachers with subject matter expertise and not education degrees.
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